Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

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greg lousy
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by greg lousy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:56 pm

Damn. Been gone a while and come back to this heartbreak. Im gonna take a step or 2 back because im not yet sure this new leak on this second pump is the real boogey man.
Did you turn belt by hand after first or second pump swap? First timing belt? Theres a few marks on the flywheel, sure youre on the triangle/ arrow one? ... going way back... yes, better to get cam amd crank in the viscinity of TDC with old belt still on. Also, more exact to put equal feeler gauges under cam locking plate because theres still play with plate in there. And always rotate after. Depending on IP locking mechanism and how you happen to do things you can still end up in the overly retarded range of ip timing and have to move belt a tooth. Dial gaige measurement helpful here
I know fuel delivery has been adressed, but have you done a straight up bottle feed? Personally i wouldnt settle for permantly on additional fuel pump.
Also... i couldnt see pictures of bad plug and injector for some reason, but did that damage occur just from brief test running while youve been doing this? Thats the main thing making me suspect some bigger problem than leaky pump. And the noise. Is that mechanical fail sounding to anyone else?
If it was me, i would seperate the pump from anything else by putting the injectors lines on backwards pointing the injectors up in the air, put up some cardboard shields where you dont want diesel (like the belt ) and take a look. I think i learned that here.... kind of a done screwing around move.
..... damn
And also i am 2 for 2 on good pumps from jack.
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greg lousy
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by greg lousy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:23 pm

Also, same noises with this 2nd pump?
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SheetsC
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by SheetsC » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:07 pm

Thanks for the reply.
The timing belt is new and I rotated it server times after install.

There is a diamond shaped notch on the fly wheel and a fixed notch that lines up top dead center.
The cam locking tool is best I can tell parallel. No room for gauges.
I am sending this pump back yet again for a new one so hopefully third times a charm.

However I do suspect something else is not working properly bests I leaking pump.
I will try bottle feeding with new pump(with inline filter).
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by Fatmobile » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:18 pm

Can you put it at TDC and post a picture of the flywheel timing mark you are using?
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greg lousy
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by greg lousy » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:06 am

"Diamond notch" sounds like the one, but worth verifying. Lining up crank and cam seperately you kind of lose frame of reference. Someone on here once mentioned flywheel installed 180 degrees off. Theres a way to test tdc from cylinders and not flywheel if you want to check. Its on this site somewhere. Hand turning crank and feeling and listening for damage worth doing too

Noise as far as i could hear is not anything ive heard with my share of IP fails, (3, including high pressure side leak).
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SheetsC
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by SheetsC » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:35 pm

Finally warmed up enough here in western NC to get some car work done.
I got the newly rebuilt injector pump installed. Attached are TDC photos.
Tmrw I will fill the pump with ATF and prime the lines and hope she turns over fires up and runs great.

Pump came with new OUT bolt which was nice. It didn’t come with a cold start cable rod so I made one by drilling two holes into a socket and tapped one hole to run a small bolt into the cable. Works pretty well so far.
Not super optimistic given my string of failures but at least we should be able to eliminate some factors.
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greg lousy
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by greg lousy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:10 pm

Timing stuff looks ok to me.

Where were we? Bottle feed? Crank by hand?
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by SheetsC » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:34 pm

No luck getting her running today. Fill up IP with ATF
She did start for about ten rough seconds then died.
Turns over and acts like it’s getting ready to fire up but nothing. Smoke out of the tail pipe is grey and white.
Primed lines by cracking injector nut one at a time while cranking.
I have Vince Walden glow plug system upgrade and I’m getting 13.1 v to each glow plug. Which I checked by taking injectors out and looking down the holes.
I will keep at it tmrw
1981 Rabbit two door 4 speed(future daily drive)
1982 Caddy 5 speed(past ten year daily driver)

greg lousy
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by greg lousy » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:46 pm

Have you turned engine by hand yet?
Suspecting more and more theres a problem in the belly of the beast.
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SheetsC
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by SheetsC » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:44 am

After replacing all 4 injectors and heat shields and the right most glow plug she fired up fairly easily and idles well after warm up.
It smokes Much less but still has to much white and gray smoke. I will trying advancing the timing soon.
Also I think my lack of power problem has been that my accelerator cable is all whacked out. I am trying to replace with new cable but the new cables don’t come with a rubber grommet that lives in the firewall. Just the green hard plastic piece.
Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks
C
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SheetsC
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by SheetsC » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:29 pm

Auto store carry the grommet that goes the the fire wall. Problem solved

But there is still NO Power.
Some refresher history.
New IP, 4 new injectors new glow plugs. Everything on TDC.
Today she started after about 15 seconds and Idles great after a minute of reving.
Still white and grey smoke when reving.
I tried advancing pump but there was no difference.
What is weird is that when I loosen the IP bolts from the bracket the pump runs stronger. And weaker when I tightened them down.
There is no air in the IP supply line but there is air between the injectors and in the return line. Air jumps up and down out of the injector barbs.
I drove down the street but I didn’t have any power, I kicked around with the accelerator cable some more. When parked, a fully depressed gas pedal almost maxes out the throttle arm on the IP. Should the throttle arm hit the stop screw when the pedal is floored?

What other reasons could account for there being no power when driving?
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by bscutt » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Seems odd that it has less power with the pump tightened down. My brain went to some sort of flexing issue in the pump but that would be very unusual. Have you tried turning in the "smoke" screw a quarter turn or so? Sorry without going back through the whole thread I don't recall all that you tried. Still wondering about that possible flexing thing. Maybe shimming a mounting point might help? Don't know that's just bizarre. Assuming you don't have a fuel restriction on incoming fuel I'd still suspect a problem with the pump. All I can say is I bought my pump through Jack (forum owner) and have been absolutely 100% pleased with it. His rebuilder did an amazing job. Advance kicks in strong at 2700 rpm, car runs great with power like a gasser, and the price was great given the flawless results. and 40-45 mpg in DC area traffic.
Bob

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SheetsC
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by SheetsC » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:59 pm

Loose time belt?
A fellow VW rabbit owner/ enthusiast payed a visit and thought my timing belt was to loose and might be causing the problems.
It definitely has expanded from since I put it in. Not sure if it’s to the point that it could effect things.
What’s your guys go to method to tension belt when everything’s TDC.
What deflection do you like to have?
Thanks again
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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by TylerDurden » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:59 pm

SheetsC wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:59 pm
Loose time belt?
A fellow VW rabbit owner/ enthusiast payed a visit and thought my timing belt was to loose and might be causing the problems.
I was thinking the opposite. A too tight belt can cause a leak at the input shaft... but usually on a worn IP bushing.

Air in the little injector lines is expected. I'd get a clear line on the output and watch for air infiltration.
Have a nice day.


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Re: Updated !!New Injector pump = no power, lots of smoke and knocking

Post by Fatmobile » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:01 am

When you say there is air in the return line,
do you mean air in the return line for the small injector lines?
Or air coming from the pump returning to the tank?
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