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 Post subject: Hydrogen
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:37 pm 
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Turbo Charger

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:45 am
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Location: Milestone, SK.
Is anyone running hydrogen in thier cars to increase MPG? If anyone is using this setup any info on the cost, how-to and the outcome would be very cool. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:42 pm 
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Cetane Booster

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:50 pm
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Location: Longville, MN
Or liquid propane or hydrogen through the existing injection system?

I too am curious.

Pup

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:55 pm 
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Diesel Freak

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 171
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
I've done extensive work in this area, eventually creating a hydrogen generator to run in my Montero a couple of years ago.
If your plan is to create the hydrogen onboard the vehicle as you use it, you should reconsider this plan. There has been no known real life success story using any type of technology that I'm presently aware of, and I spent a lot of time studying and experimenting.
Hydrogen does have energy, and would enhance your power and MPG, but hydrogen must be manufactured. This is why it's actually an energy carier, not a source. In truth, you always lose some energy whenever you convert energy from one type to another. In this case, the most efficient method is to use electrolysis to split the molecule into hydrogen and oxygen (Brown's gas). You're converting electrical energy into chemical energy. You will suffer a loss of around 50% or more energy. Then you'd need a way to store the hydrogen, and there hasn't been an efficient way designed to do that yet (while staying within the budget of a home tinkerer, that is).
Any way you cut it, this is presently a losing proposition.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:48 pm 
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Cetane Booster

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:24 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Bridgeport, OH
Krank is correct!
But the conversion efficency is even poorer than 50%!
Based upon chemical considerations alone if hydrogen is considered the only usable product the conversion is only 11% efficent!
If however, you also feed the oxygen into the engine your conversion is much better. But what are the consequences of feeding oxygen enriched air into a diesel. Certainly more complete burn, but very likely much higher exhaust temps with high probability of premature failure.
Not to mention compressing the hydrogen to a small enough volumn to make it reasonably portable. You will need special pumps and tanks. Otherwise, hydrogen embrittlement will cause quick failure of those systems.
The other consideration is that you are using a high quality energy source, electricity, to produce a low quality, btu wise, fuel or fuel modifier.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Diesel Freak

Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:29 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
I had never heard of hydrogen embrittlement before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

Very interesting.[/url]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:00 pm 
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Turbo Charger
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Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:05 am
Posts: 2446
I think probably the most efficient creation/storage of hydrogen is by plants when it is ripped from H2o by a photon of light and then combined with carbon for easy storage... :P

Andrew


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:36 pm 
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Turbo Charger

Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:43 pm
Posts: 1417
Location: Canada Southern Alberta
The same thing can happen to natural gas pipe lines. Methane and ethane are just about all hydrogen and a little bit of carbon. They have had to send smart pigs down the line to look for cracks. I remember quite a few years back they had a break in a small town in Saskatchewan. You could see it 30 miles alway.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:58 pm 
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Cetane Booster

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:01 pm
Posts: 35
Location: Eastern Oregon
One of the best websites for this sort of "Alternative Energy" technology is

[http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Fuel_Efficiency_Hydrogen_Injection]

And peswiki.com has every kind of technology real and imagined. I have been reading on the electrolysis conversion of water to browns gas for a year or so. I am just about to build my own elctrolyizer in the next couple of days. Some of the commercially available ones are guaranteeing 50% increase in fuel economy. My estimate on the cost to build is $100, because everything has to be Stainless Steel. I will share my own experience.[/url]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:29 pm 
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Cetane Booster

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:24 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Bridgeport, OH
mattbondy wrote:
I had never heard of hydrogen embrittlement before.


Became and issue when doing research for Muon-catalyzed Fusion.
Confining deuterium and tritium gas at high pressure caused containment failure.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:00 pm 
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Turbo Charger

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:45 am
Posts: 492
Location: Milestone, SK.
I have a friend who is not very mech inclined is making hydrogen in his house so far he said only one explosion.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:14 pm 
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Diesel Freak

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 171
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Yeah, that was me, too. I can still remember the last words of the smart guy who was standing OUTSIDE the garage... "Carefull!" :shock:

My ears were ringing, and I had to change my underwear!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:08 pm 
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Turbo Charger

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:45 am
Posts: 492
Location: Milestone, SK.
:lol:
Explosions are always exciting. Best part is when your in one piece after the dust clears..There is always the fraction of a second where you think gee maybe I shouldn't have..too late!!

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